recent thread has me wondering:

what's the shortest runway you've encountered with an ILS?

About the shortest I can think of offhand is the ILS 24 at
RID (Richmond, Indiana), 5500 ft.

We may have been somewhere w/ a shorter runway served by an
ILS, but probably didn't fly an ILS and I don't remember

Anyone else?

Thanks,
Sydney

In article >,
(Snowbird) writes:

>what's the shortest runway you've encountered with an ILS?
>
>About the shortest I can think of offhand is the ILS 24 at
>RID (Richmond, Indiana), 5500 ft.

KLPR in Ohio (just 8 miles from me at I64) has an ILS to 07
and is 5002 X 100. Uncontrolled field.

Chuck

"Snowbird" > wrote...
>
> what's the shortest runway you've encountered with an ILS?

About 600 feet -- CV 41 USS Midway.

I would have said CVT 16 USS Lexington, but I can't ever remember the ILS
working on Lex...

On 22 Jan 2004, Snowbird wrote:

Found ILS RW 8 @ Butler, PA (BTP) -- 3998'

Rick/JYO
PP-ASEL-IA

> recent thread has me wondering:
>
> what's the shortest runway you've encountered with an ILS?
>

In article >,
(Snowbird) wrote:

> recent thread has me wondering:
>
> what's the shortest runway you've encountered with an ILS?
>
> About the shortest I can think of offhand is the ILS 24 at
> RID (Richmond, Indiana), 5500 ft.

ILS-3 at MGJ (Montgomery NY) and ILS-36 at OXC (Oxford CT) are both 5000
feet.

chino california (CNO) the ILS on 26R is 4858 ft.
seems shorter then that to me tho.


Snowbird wrote:

> recent thread has me wondering:
>
> what's the shortest runway you've encountered with an ILS?
>
> About the shortest I can think of offhand is the ILS 24 at
> RID (Richmond, Indiana), 5500 ft.
>
> We may have been somewhere w/ a shorter runway served by an
> ILS, but probably didn't fly an ILS and I don't remember
>
> Anyone else?
>
> Thanks,
> Sydney

On 22 Jan 2004 13:40:28 -0800, (Snowbird)
wrote:

>recent thread has me wondering:
>
>what's the shortest runway you've encountered with an ILS?

Fun question.

Mine is Chicago-Dupage, ILS10, 4751ft.

Isn't there a minimum runway length to have an ILS, like 4000ft?

-Nathan

> what's the shortest runway you've encountered with an ILS?

Runway 6 at Shirley, NY (Brookhaven, HWV), is 4200 ft.

MYF in San Diego

Runway 28 R 4577 of pavement, but with landing length on the ILS
approach plate of 3401.

(Snowbird) wrote in message >...





> what's the shortest runway you've encountered with an ILS?


3909 feet for Flying Cloud, MN (FCM).

"Barry" > wrote in message >...
> > what's the shortest runway you've encountered with an ILS?
>
> Runway 6 at Shirley, NY (Brookhaven, HWV), is 4200 ft.

Huh... for some reason that one actually seemed longer to me. But
then i went from 3200 ft with a 1000' displaced threshhold in NC to
Brookhaven, so I guess it would seem longer. HWV was actually the
last place my ILS receiver worked.

sue***

Nathan Young > writes:

>Isn't there a minimum runway length to have an ILS, like 4000ft?

There might be a minimum but it doesn't appear to be 4000 feet.
VVS, 05, 3458, 100, ASPH-F
HIE, 10, 3495, 75, ASPH-G
PVC, 07, 3500, 100, ASPH-G
FCM, 10R, 3909, 75, ASPH-G
BTP, 08, 3998, 100, ASPH-F

Pavement doesn't seem to be a requirement either.
PBV, 11, 5000, 150, GRAVEL-G
UBW, 05, 6000, 130, GRAVEL-G
KSM, 16, 6003, 150, GRAVEL-G
UNK, 14, 6004, 150, GRAVEL-G

--kyler

(Vic) wrote in
om:

> "Barry" > wrote in message
> >...
>> > what's the shortest runway you've encountered with an ILS?
>>
>> Runway 6 at Shirley, NY (Brookhaven, HWV), is 4200 ft.
>
> Huh... for some reason that one actually seemed longer to me. But
> then i went from 3200 ft with a 1000' displaced threshhold in NC to
> Brookhaven, so I guess it would seem longer. HWV was actually the
> last place my ILS receiver worked.
>
> sue***
>

And that runway was the site of my first actual IFR ILS after I got my IA.
It was fairly benign weather - 800 ft overcast. I don't remember it being
short, but I normally fly out of a 2500 runway with a 250 displacement.

John

Kyler Laird > writes:

>Nathan Young > writes:

>>Isn't there a minimum runway length to have an ILS, like 4000ft?

>There might be a minimum but it doesn't appear to be 4000 feet.
> VVS, 05, 3458, 100, ASPH-F
> HIE, 10, 3495, 75, ASPH-G
> PVC, 07, 3500, 100, ASPH-G
> FCM, 10R, 3909, 75, ASPH-G
> BTP, 08, 3998, 100, ASPH-F

Oh! I'm sorry for being incomplete there. I forgot to mention that
I was looking at runways with full ILS or just localizers. The FAA
groups everything under "ILS"
http://aviationtoolbox.org/old/ATA-100/Subscriber_File_Formats/Apt_rf.txt

L AN 0010 00072 I22 INSTRUMENT LANDING SYSTEM (ILS) TYPE
ILS - INSTRUMENT LANDING SYSTEM
MLS - MICROWAVE LANDING SYSTEM
SDF - SIMPLIFIED DIRECTIONAL FACILITY
LOCALIZER - LOCALIZER
LDA - LOCALIZER-TYPE DIRECTIONAL AID
ISMLS - INTERIM STANDARD MICROWAVE
LANDING SYSTEM
ILS/DME - INSTRUMENT LANDING SYSTEM/
DISTANCE MEASURING EQUIPMENT
SDF/DME - SIMPLIFIED DIRECTIONAL FACILITY
DISTANCE MEASURING EQUIPMENT
LOC/DME - LOCALIZER/
DISTANCE MEASURING EQUIPMENT
LOC/GS - LOCALIZER/GLIDE SLOPE
LDA/DME - LOCALIZER-TYPE DIRECTIONAL AID
DISTANCE MEASURING EQUIPMENT
and I was examining anything with "ILS" or "LOC" in the type. Here's
a better list.
SXL, 04, 3015, 50, ASPH-F, SDF
VVS, 05, 3458, 100, ASPH-F, LOCALIZER
HIE, 10, 3495, 75, ASPH-G, LOCALIZER
PVC, 07, 3500, 100, ASPH-G, ILS/DME
DUT, 12, 3900, 100, ASPH-G, MLS
FCM, 10R, 3909, 75, ASPH-G, ILS
BTP, 08, 3998, 100, ASPH-F, ILS

Hmmm...looks like I should have just gone straight to the ILS file
instead of looking at airport/runway info.
http://aviationtoolbox.org/old/ATA-100/Subscriber_File_Formats/Ils_rf.txt

--kyler

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:12:02 GMT, Kyler Laird >
wrote:

>Nathan Young > writes:
>
>>Isn't there a minimum runway length to have an ILS, like 4000ft?
>
>There might be a minimum but it doesn't appear to be 4000 feet.
> VVS, 05, 3458, 100, ASPH-F
> HIE, 10, 3495, 75, ASPH-G
> PVC, 07, 3500, 100, ASPH-G
> FCM, 10R, 3909, 75, ASPH-G
> BTP, 08, 3998, 100, ASPH-F
>
>Pavement doesn't seem to be a requirement either.
> PBV, 11, 5000, 150, GRAVEL-G
> UBW, 05, 6000, 130, GRAVEL-G
> KSM, 16, 6003, 150, GRAVEL-G
> UNK, 14, 6004, 150, GRAVEL-G

Wild. Hard to believe you can shoot an ILS to Gravel, of course each
of those runways mentioned are in Alaska...

-Nathan

writes:

>MYF in San Diego

>Runway 28 R 4577 of pavement,

Ah ha! I hadn't even caught that one. The airport data file puts all
information for a runway (both ends) in one line and I had neglected
to look at the reciprocol end data.

That makes the under 4000' list look like this.
UUU, 22, 2999, 75, ASPH-G, LOC/DME, 0, 2999
SXL, 04, 3015, 50, ASPH-F, SDF, 0, 3015
FUL, 24, 3121, 75, ASPH-G, LOC/DME, 253, 2868
PTW, 28, 3371, 75, ASPH-G, LOCALIZER, 200, 3171
VVS, 05, 3458, 100, ASPH-F, LOCALIZER, 0, 3458
HIE, 10, 3495, 75, ASPH-G, LOCALIZER, 0, 3495
DKX, 26, 3497, 75, ASPH-G, LOCALIZER, 0, 3497
PVC, 07, 3500, 100, ASPH-G, ILS/DME, 0, 3500
DUT, 12, 3900, 100, ASPH-G, MLS, 100, 3800
FCM, 10R, 3909, 75, ASPH-G, ILS, 0, 3909
CRG, 32, 3998, 100, ASPH-G, ILS, 0, 3998
BTP, 08, 3998, 100, ASPH-F, ILS, 0, 3998
RLD, 19, 3999, 75, ASPH-G, LOCALIZER, 0, 3999
W99, 31, 3999, 60, ASPH-G, LDA/DME, 0, 3999

>but with landing length on the ILS
>approach plate of 3401.

O.k., here's the list by landing lengths (considering displaced
thresholds).
FUL, 24, 3121, 75, ASPH-G, LOC/DME, 253, 2868
UUU, 22, 2999, 75, ASPH-G, LOC/DME, 0, 2999
SXL, 04, 3015, 50, ASPH-F, SDF, 0, 3015
PTW, 28, 3371, 75, ASPH-G, LOCALIZER, 200, 3171
MYF, 28R, 4577, 150, ASPH-G, ILS/DME, 1176, 3401
VVS, 05, 3458, 100, ASPH-F, LOCALIZER, 0, 3458
HIE, 10, 3495, 75, ASPH-G, LOCALIZER, 0, 3495
DKX, 26, 3497, 75, ASPH-G, LOCALIZER, 0, 3497
PVC, 07, 3500, 100, ASPH-G, ILS/DME, 0, 3500
LVN, 30, 4098, 75, ASPH-G, ILS, 391, 3707
DUT, 12, 3900, 100, ASPH-G, MLS, 100, 3800
FCM, 10R, 3909, 75, ASPH-G, ILS, 0, 3909
CRG, 32, 3998, 100, ASPH-G, ILS, 0, 3998
BTP, 08, 3998, 100, ASPH-F, ILS, 0, 3998
RLD, 19, 3999, 75, ASPH-G, LOCALIZER, 0, 3999
W99, 31, 3999, 60, ASPH-G, LDA/DME, 0, 3999
MYF is indeed the shortest for a full ILS.

And for those of you who thought "Dang! That's one hell of a
displaced threshold":
BFL, 30R, 10857, 150, ASPH-G, ILS/DME, 3428, 7429
JFK, 31L, 14572, 150, ASPH-CONC-G, ILS, 3324, 11248
JFK, 22R, 11351, 150, ASPH-CONC-G, ILS/DME, 2696, 8655
EWR, 04L, 11000, 150, ASPH-CONC-G, ILS/DME, 2540, 8460
VCV, 17, 13050, 150, ASPH-CONC-G, LOC/GS, 2000, 11050
SWF, 09, 11818, 150, ASPH-G, ILS, 1992, 9826
SWF, 27, 11818, 150, ASPH-G, ILS/DME, 1990, 9828
LGB, 30, 10000, 200, ASPH-G, ILS, 1989, 8011
SGR, 35, 8000, 100, CONC-G, ILS/DME, 1984, 6016
SJC, 30L, 10198, 150, CONC-G, ILS, 1866, 8332
SAN, 27, 9400, 200, CONC-ASPH-G, LOC/DME, 1810, 7590
BHM, 24, 10000, 150, ASPH-G, ILS/DME, 1770, 8230
EWR, 22L, 9980, 150, ASPH-G, ILS/DME, 1770, 8210
MSP, 04, 11006, 150, CONC-G, ILS, 1550, 9456
EWR, 22R, 11000, 150, ASPH-CONC-G, ILS/DME, 1440, 9560
VNY, 16R, 8001, 150, ASPH-G, ILS, 1431, 6570
LAS, 25R, 14510, 150, ASPH-G, ILS, 1397, 13113
AFW, 16L, 9600, 150, CONC-G, ILS/DME, 1390, 8210
OXR, 25, 5950, 100, ASPH-G, ILS, 1373, 4577
MIA, 09R, 13000, 150, ASPH-G, ILS, 1350, 11650
SRQ, 14, 9503, 150, ASPH-G, ILS/DME, 1350, 8153
SEE, 27R, 5341, 100, ASPH-G, LOCALIZER, 1306, 4035
EVV, 04, 8021, 150, ASPH-G, ILS, 1300, 6721
MIA, 27L, 13000, 150, ASPH-G, ILS, 1270, 11730
PBI, 09L, 10008, 150, ASPH-G, ILS, 1200, 8808
CEF, 05, 11600, 300, ASPH-G, LOC/GS, 1200, 10400
BOS, 22L, 10005, 150, ASPH-G, ILS/DME, 1199, 8806
EWR, 04R, 9980, 150, ASPH-G, ILS/DME, 1190, 8790
PWT, 19, 6200, 150, ASPH-G, ILS, 1190, 5010
MYF, 28R, 4577, 150, ASPH-G, ILS/DME, 1176, 3401

--kyler

"Kyler Laird" > wrote in message
...
> writes:

> Ah ha! I hadn't even caught that one. The airport data file puts all
> information for a runway (both ends) in one line and I had neglected
> to look at the reciprocol end data.
>
> That makes the under 4000' list look like this.
> UUU, 22, 2999, 75, ASPH-G, LOC/DME, 0, 2999
> PVC, 07, 3500, 100, ASPH-G, ILS/DME, 0, 3500
....

Wanna go international?

The shortest with a LOC is HONNINGSVAG VALAN in Norway at 2625 ft. It looks
fun, with an MDH of 1240 ft and a hill above that level at 2 miles on the
extended centreline. The hill has a tower on to make it more fun.

The shortest with an ILS was Schwaebisch Hall at 3018 ft, but I can't find
the approach, so the official winner Mannheim City scrapes in at 3497 ft.

Julian Scarfe

"Julian Scarfe" > writes:
> Wanna go international?
>
> The shortest with a LOC is HONNINGSVAG VALAN in Norway at 2625 ft. It looks
> fun, with an MDH of 1240 ft and a hill above that level at 2 miles on the
> extended centreline. The hill has a tower on to make it more fun.

It would seem that you could never have a full ILS on such
a short runway. With the runway/GS intercept a common 1000'
down the runway, there ain't much length left to whoa!

> The shortest with an ILS was Schwaebisch Hall at 3018 ft, but I can't find
> the approach, so the official winner Mannheim City scrapes in at 3497 ft.

"Julian Scarfe" > wrote in message >...
> "Kyler Laird" > wrote in message
> ...
> > writes:
?
>
> The shortest with a LOC is HONNINGSVAG VALAN in Norway at 2625 ft. It looks
> fun, with an MDH of 1240 ft and a hill above that level at 2 miles on the
> extended centreline. The hill has a tower on to make it more fun.

I assume it has a circle to land? The AIM has a picture of using
circling to reduce altitude.


> The shortest with an ILS was Schwaebisch Hall at 3018 ft, but I can't find
> the approach, so the official winner Mannheim City scrapes in at 3497 ft.
>
> Julian Scarfe

> "Julian Scarfe" > wrote in message
>...

> > The shortest with a LOC is HONNINGSVAG VALAN in Norway at 2625 ft. It
looks
> > fun, with an MDH of 1240 ft and a hill above that level at 2 miles on
the
> > extended centreline. The hill has a tower on to make it more fun.

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
om...

> I assume it has a circle to land? The AIM has a picture of using
> circling to reduce altitude.

It does, though my description was ambiguous. The hill is on the centreline
of the approach if you were to follow it 2 miles *beyond* the airport. The
MAP is 2 miles before it. The LOC is actually for a 207 degree course while
the runway is 08/26, so circling is required anyway, even without a 1240 ft
descent required from 2 miles.

Julian Scarfe